Proving to have Strength

No one expected to add to current thread.

...However, it would be nice...

Is there anyone here who does use http://www.lang-8.com ?...

Is it me, or is something suddenly changing about the practice page? Now it will not progress unless you refresh... (This post could be modified by the end of this day...

Its modified back to normal, I have to modify it to the new one locally.

You can use it now!
Sorry about this problem

Thank you. I noticed the new modification as well: One wrong answer adds to your weak list...

Gaining so much [experience] in so little time... This is enjoyable...

http://www.jisho.org/ = Though Zkanji is downloadable for offline work, this site has a few translators as well...

Now some questions will not allow continuation without a correct answer...

ya I did some modification.

this modification is to make the users learn more than one vocabulary in one question.

for more info see this bulletin post:

http://japaneseclass.jp/viewnote.php?no=89 />

http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/aboutn/ = A new [JLPT]! 5 levels instead of 4! All the more reason to continue studies, anyway...

Am I the only one alive out here, besides Beeant?...

JLPT lvl5 huh? They are closing the gap between lvl 2 and 3 I see. Anyone here have taken JLPT test before? I'm about to take mine this year, and I've been under very informal learning. Kinda worried about it.

I have been training for quite a while. [Kanji] is the worst of my weaknesses... so far...

but the website is providing an awesome job in kanji training, at least in reading it. hahahaah. Its pretty easy to slip in answering kanji though... I realized that that I keep overlooking ま and も.. and a few of those °.

in terms of JLPT, I'm worried about my grammar...

[Kanji, vocabulary] are those I must work on... I keep planning to post a journal in http://www.lang-8.com , but I do not know what to post... In terms of grammar, I am weak in [particles]...

ya particles is kind of confusing... especially for は and が
I think its better to read Japanese texts, listen to music or videos to understand it more

particles is really the hardest part to get used to isn't it? Since sentences are dynamic and changing and stuff.

Ga is the most confusing of all!...

Does anyone have any topic ideas for journals in http://www.lang-8.com ? I can use what I learned here to try making a journal for that topic...
[Fuonk] is near the top in global rankings!! However, there will soon be different opponents for him to deal with... I will ensure that myself...

Why do some words have different [kanji] at the beginning, giving them different meanings? (Example: Kaeru)

I don't really understand about the kanji question. 帰る　返る, like this? If that is the case, then I think its because Japanese language has limited sound system since they depend only on syllables. That's why most Japanese joke are based on puns, since they have tons of word with the same pronunciation.

Topic huh... journal on self-studying over the internet? XD

Every time I run into that problem in smart.fm, it confuses me every time. Hayai has 2 meanings as well, and that messes me up... It gives both choices...

Thought of kyou: Why can I not reach 70 combo like everyone else, even [Fuonk]!? [Vocabulary] alone still will not be enough, as I slip up...

you need to be patient, do more practice, and be careful especially on the kanji questions as there are lots of traps

Darknaviexe, I get to 70 (and beyond) by looking up anything I'm not sure of. Kind of feels like cheating (~_~) but also helps me learn them. (I'm only working on vocabulary right now; I only know a few kanji and haven't figured out a good way to memorize them yet.)

yeah the kanji has tons of trap... its really annoying when you know exactly the answer but just because you overlook the "....

in anycase just be patient~

Dakutens （”） mess me up more often than handakutens, considering the could be told apart much easier... I will keep your statement in mind...

The one clue leading me to the right answer is familiar [kanji]... More become familiar, while some remain almost new...

I can recognize very few [kanji], but I keep losing combo points! Even with [vocabulary] alone, I have not gained more than 14-15 combo points without messing up, forcing a combo restart... What am I doing wrong?...

Anymore ideas for http://www.lang-8.com journal posts?

hmm what about reason to why you learn Japanese? or why you like Japan?

"I can recognize very few [kanji], but I keep losing combo points! Even with [vocabulary] alone, I have not gained more than 14-15 combo points without messing up, forcing a combo restart... What am I doing wrong?..."

Maybe you're trying to go too fast...? My strategy is - even if I *know* the answer, read all four possibilities (and sometimes look up the ones I don't know) and then choose an answer. If I'm not so sure of the answer, I can usually eliminate at least 1-2 of the possibilities because I'll know what they are, and then look up the others to find the right answer. Sometimes I'll know one or more of the kanji (only works for some of the basic ones) and then I know the answer...but I still try to read all the possibilities (and sometimes look up ones I don't know) just to be sure I'm choosing the right one.

Looking things up, I use a paper dictionary (not online or electronic) and look up the Japanese words (possible answers) first. If I can't find anything that way, then I'll look up the English word & find the answer that way.

It does take me a while to get very far, but looking things up helps me remember them better, and I do get the combo points...

How is particle "ga" used?

Trying too fast? Why use a dictionary? I do read all possibilities. What about [vocabulary] that are spelled the same in [kana], but have different [kanji]?

I mentioned trying to go too fast because if you are hurrying for any reason, it's much more likely that mistakes will be made.

I use a dictionary that shows the different kanji for the different meanings - for example, it has three separate entries with different kanji for "haru": spring (season); paste, stick or attach; stretch, spread, become tense, be expensive. I would need to look at the kanji in the vocabulary question and also the kanji in the dictionary to see which one it was.

Also, I just like dictionaries & will sometimes just read a word here & there in between looking things up. :^)

Ok, try this!: I am almost finished with [japanese core series] 1, meaning I will start 2 almost immediately after (I have college courses! I have a feeling someone is going to ask why...), attempting to complete each one in a month's succession. I have been trying to write in japanese with no aid, but I am too weak to use [kanji], even though I know some (Some, not a high amount, a low amount! That shows how much weaker I am!...), and my [vocabulary experience] is too low to allow me to make sentences any greater than a preschooler. I noticed some [kanji] in smart.fm have possession of multiple words (example: the only one I know the most of: [kanji] "kyou")... How can I improve my [vocabulary experience] by writing [kana, kanji], how can [kanji] possess more than one word, and is there anyone (who is reading this, if anyone at all) who is willing to practice with me? I will give more details soon after receiving a response... (For those of you who are going to say replace english words with japanese in sentences, I was going to try that, but was warned of the difference of "...frying with a pan and eating one." I learned "pan" meant bread in japanese, forcing a strategy revision. That particular instructor is the one who gave me instructions for training in japanese, and I will not stray from it. However, I am requesting someone (with much time on a regular basis) to study with me. Of course, I do study with allies, but only on their time, which is occasional... More details at a later time... (I seem to be the only one active in this area, besides those gaining 5-7 digits in [experience] a day...)

Oh, and I am not hurrying through the lessons... Are there [kanji] that possess are known to possess multiple words? I experienced this in smart.fm, but I must be sure...

About kanji.... A kanji character can mean one thing by itself, but when combined with another kanji, the meaning is often not just the meanings of the two kanji put together, but a new meaning (and a new pronunciation). Is that what you mean?? I'm very weak on kanji & am mostly concentrating on vocabulary right now, and picking up a bit of kanji here and there.

Japanese is a phonetically limited language & has a lot of words that sound the same (or nearly the same) & will be written the same with kana, but will have different kanji.

What do you do at smart.fm other than hear the words...?

Have you learned about Japanese grammar & sentence structure? The word order in Japanese is different than in English so replacing English words with Japanese is pretty limited.

I've been studying on my own for a while; one thing that helps me is watching Japanese dramas (with subtitles) and talk/variety shows (mostly without subtitles). By listening a lot I can get more of a feel for the rhythm of the language, hear the pronunciation, and learn to listen for the words I know (and they're a lot of fun...).

I'd love to study Japanese with someone, but I'm not sure what you have in mind. (^_^)

In order:

[Kanji] in smart.fm (specifically [japanese core series] 1 at this time) possess more than one word. One [kanji] can be seen with 2 different words alone. That is what constantly confuses me, especially with [vocabulary] quizzes...

I use smart.fm fpr [japanese core series] because of a need to learn [kanji]. I must learn at least 6000 to not only stop using [kana] in most areas, but to completely destroy those who oppose me with it! Every time I practice with someone, [kanji] appears! I have little to no idea of what they are saying, and I cannot even guess, leaving me defenseless against it!...

I have done more than hear of grammar and [sentence structure], I am attempted to learn from it. Some [particles] throw me off themselves, including "ga".

I have tried my hand at anime and other such shows using japanese alone, and have completely failed to understand what they say! English subtitles are the only way I can know what they are saying, which is embarrassing! I intend to remove this weakness one day, which is why I cannot rest, even when that era comes! Others are much more lucky...

I study japanese with allies using IMs, as well as http://www.lang-8.com , receiving journal notifications from Kei_86. Other than that, I traverse wave roads alone...

Here's one idea - on this site I do things backwards from the suggested order. I do the random practice (vocabulary only) first, looking up words I don't know, and for me looking words up in a paper dictionary helps me remember them better than looking them up online (and also helps me to know if there are several words with the same kana spelling). After I know the level vocabulary pretty well, then I take the tests, and then go back to the practice area again if I need more points to get to the next level.

I would not try to watch Japanese shows without subtitles right away, but rather watch with subtitles and try to pick out words or phrases that you know, or that show up a lot. (Watching a second time without subtitles might be good, though.) When I watch without subtitles (mainly music, talk, & variety shows) I do pause and look words up a lot or I'd be pretty lost (and I still miss a lot). The closer the show is to "regular daily life" the easier it will be to understand what they're saying.

There are kanji dictionaries online, or you can buy a paper one - I really like having a paper book to look things up in & just to look at the different kanji/words, plus some of them have information about the origin of the kanji etc. that can help me remember the meanings.

Have you tried working through a Japanese textbook, or following a structured "language learning" course on audio cds? (Both might be found for free check-out at your public library.) There are a lot of them out there, and they might help you build a stronger foundation, rather than just focusing on kanji.

"Ga" is tricky....I think I used to know some rules, but the best thing (I think) is just to listen to Japanese a lot and get a "feel" for how it's used.

Watch a show repetitively? I would have tried a japanese textbook...if I had one! I am not allowed to get one... I am using a course...on smart.fm...named [Japanese core series 2000] 1... That is as close as I can get...

"Ga" seems similar to multiple [particles]...

Where can I listen to japanese? I was earlier instructed to try japanese anime, but which one? I must be sure, even considering all words used are used very quickly...

A beginning text book could be helpful as they usually explain the very basics of the language. I'm not sure why you're "not allowed" to get one; they don't have to be hugely expensive and can be a great resource.

There should be anime with subtitles available on youtube (each episode will be broken into several parts, probably). You can also download fansubbed anime, it's pretty widely available.

Which anime...well, that depends on what you're interested in. One that is funny and (mostly) set in the real world is Azumanga Daioh, but I've never watched it with the intent of learning the language so I don't know how it would be for that. (I watch a lot more drama than anime, so I not a very good resource for anime suggestions.) I have heard that Naruto is NOT a good choice for learning the language as the Japanese used in that show is often weird or wrong.

I don't think you can be sure of EVERY word that is spoken in anime as you watch it. That would be very, very difficult. I would watch anime to listen for familiar words, learn sentence patterns, become familiar with the overall sound of the language, etc.

May I ask why you're learning Japanese?

Multiple reasons, which I am still trying to write in japanese in http://www.lang-8.com : I intend to travel to Japan soon enough, I am tired of not being able to read [kanji] without understanding it, writing notes in japanese would help with privacy in a big way, and there are a few more reasons...

You should really let the language gets to you, and not be too concerned about its shape and form yet. Kanji is but a way of writing, understanding the way the language goes should do you more good right now I think. Which is why I agree with TofuQueen too, try to listen to more Japanese being spoke is real life situation. Be it drama or anime, since Kanji is picture-like in its essense, reading a whole text with kanji is like really a picture book.

As I've said before Japanese is very limited in their pronunciation because they are limited to those in the hiragana/katakana so they have a lot of words with the same pronunciation. It'll all goes back to how are you used to the language to be able to differentiate which kanji goes to which kanji in which context of sentence.

6000 kanji? Not even most of the Japanese knows that much. Take it easy, choose your aim according to the JLPT, learn kanji through their syllabus. It'll help you more than aiming for 6000 kanji.

And yes, listen to more Japanese. It might not be related to writing, but believe me it'll help you a lot.

Once I know the Japanese word, it is much easier for me to learn the kanji (kanji are still very difficult for me, though). Already knowing that "te" is "hand", I can connect that to the kanji more easily than if I just pick a kanji - even a relatively simple one - and try to learn a new vocabulary word and the kanji at the same time.

I'm learning Japanese on my own & for myself so no deadlines and I learn at my own (often slow) pace. Everything I've read says that the best method of learning a language is immersion (basically, go live in the country & speak only that country's language), but the second-best method is to work on it every day and expose yourself to the language as much as you can through tv, music, etc.

I've gotten much more comfortable with Japanese numbers through watching a game show that frequently announced scores and posted them on the screen at the same time. The more Japanese music I listen to, the more words & phrases I can pick out & understand. The more Japanese shows I watch, the more I get a feel for sentence patterns, inflection, etc. My grasp of English grammar rules is shaky at best, but I can follow them because I've learned the patterns. (I'm not saying "don't bother to learn the rules" but if you can get a "feel" for the language then you'll probably start to automatically follow the grammar rules even if you couldn't explain to someone else what they are.) [Plus the shows are fun to watch & I love the music...]

"Plus the shows are fun to watch & I love the music..." quoted for truth, yeah I've basically been studying my Japanese the same way. Immerse yourself with the language until you get the 'feel' of it.

Plus Japan variety shows usually have sentences written on the screen too. So frequent kanji appears often.

Current instruction: Japanese studies ( http://www.smart.fm , http://www.japaneseclass.jp ). Received notice: Japanese variety shows, music. Which site? When? Frequency?

Hm. It's hard to know what to recommend when I have no idea what sort of thing you like. If you can tell me some US music & tv shows you like, I might be able to make some suggestions...

If you can download torrents, http://jpopsuki.eu/ has a LOT of music, music shows, and talk/variety shows featuring Japanese music stars. They recently moved their servers so there's not as much as the old site had, but there's still a lot there. If you search torrents for "Oricon Top", they currently have batch torrents with the top 30 most popular songs for the weeks of 9/14 and 9/21 - not that j-pop is all there is, but it's an easy way to hear quite a few different groups/singers.

http://www.d-addicts.com is great for dramas, drama soundtracks, and some other Japanese tv as well (torrents again).

If you can't download torrents, www.silentregrets.com has quite a few movies & dramas & some soundtracks for direct download.

I do not listen to music, despite everyone else doing so... I have received a link for watching shows, but was notified of subtitles: http://www.animefreak.tv/ . If I tell you what I normally watch on T.V., please do not be surprised... Some say it is obvious...

I guess I would say - think about the things involving language that you enjoy, and find some rough equivalent in Japanese. If you enjoy game shows, look for Japanese game shows; if you like documentaries, look for Japanese documentaries; etc. If you find a Japanese celebrity that you like, you can look for other things they've done. In the process you may find other fun things that you would never have thought to look for...

I don't watch US tv at all, but I love Japanese dramas. There are a few Japanese celebrities that I just enjoy watching, so I've watched their appearances on different shows (drama, interview, music, game shows, etc.).

Really it's just whatever you'd find interesting to watch & listen to.

What about [kanji]?...

What *about* kanji? (?_?)

As kei_86 said, a lot of the variety shows will put words (including kanji) on the screen so you can possibly learn some that way.

Other than that, you're not going to get much kanji from watching Japanese tv.

Kanji is my very lowest priority right now (focusing on vocabulary so I can understand spoken Japanese & written Japanese that has furigana, and picking up kanji as I can along the way) so I really haven't tried a lot of ways to learn it.

Oh, there is a game you can download here: http://lrnj.com/ that can help you learn kanji. I've tried the free version & it's pretty fun, but I didn't play it very much so I don't know how much it really helps with learning kanji.

I despise [furigana] because it aids with [kanji] in such a way that I would feel slow reading it, as I do now... However, I will try for shows and radio stations...

Is using a radio station in combination with http://www.smart.fm and http://www.japaneseclass.jp safe?...

"Safe"? (O_o)

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about learning a language. Some methods & resources are more useful than others, but people learn differently so what works well for one person may not be that helpful for another person.

Any exposure to native or fluent Japanese is going to help you (listening to other beginners may lead you astray, though...). If you have access to a radio station that plays Japanese music or people speaking Japanese, that's great!

Watch, listen, read, etc. as much as you can given the opportunities you have (or can make) and the other stuff going on in your life. (^_^)

Opportunities to make!? That is not probable. All related to japanese, as I recall, resides in http://www.smart.fm , http://www.lang-8.com , and http://www.japaneseclass.jp ...

Eh...no...there are a lot of other Japanese-related resources on the internet, and other places as well.

I've found printable kanji flash cards, kana practice sheets, and lots of other helpful things with just a little looking. There also tons of Japanese shows to watch & listen to, it just takes a little effort.

I will start a search... However, with a new chat room, practice with other navis here is enabled... However, I lack [vocabulary experience], unlike everyone else with higher [experience]...

When it comes to transing into a chat room while other navis are there,
either plan earlier, or lurk. Since my plans never work, lurking is much more probable, but any other plans would work... I think...

Received notification: Reduce activity in http://www.lang-8.com ; increase speed in http://www.smart.fm , http://www.japaneseclass.jp .

....it was just a *suggestion* you know...not an "order" or anything... (O_o)

Ok. In either case, as I am now, I will follow it.

I am, by far, the weakest in this area. I never reached a higher level, as 100s have before me...

Konnichiwa dark-kun ^^

Hisashiburi ne~ How's your study doing so far?
Gambatte

Jaa
チョコ

Everyone is burning me down...again...like last time...

Don't focus on the scores so much - everyone learns at their own pace, in their own time. Some people have already been studying for years. Some people just learn languages more easily. (Not me, unfortunately! (~_~) ) Some people have more time to spend on it than others.

I'm sure it's frustrating to see others progressing faster, but you really need to compete against *yourself* instead. Maybe set a goal of how many points YOU want to get per day, or something like that?

Notification received: http://www.japaneseclass.jp [experience] goal. Minimum/ maximum?

Eh...just pick a number that is reachable but not dead easy. You can always adjust it later. Maybe look at what your average daily score is, and add 50? (Just a suggestion...I picked my daily goal pretty randomly but it's working out well for making sure I spend some time here working on vocab every day.)

1050 decided. Each day, this minimum will increase by 50 (+50). Confirm?

Increasing by 50 per day might be a lot, but you can always see how it goes. Each new level is going to be harder at first because of all the new words... Level 4 is a lot harder for me (lots of new vocab) so reaching my normal goal is pretty challenging some days, never mind constantly increasing it...

Ok. When I reach the minimum, I will +50 for the next day...

As it seems, I will not easily reach 1050. However, I could be close... When I do reach it, I can finally increase by 50...

My daily goal is more of a "minimum time to spend per day" - something I can usually get to even on days when I have quite a bit of other stuff going on. Most days I go over my goal, but sometimes on busy days, esp. when I'm learning a lot of new vocab, it's harder to reach... I guess my point is that your goal should probably be something reachable, not something you have to struggle for...

700-800 seems to be as close as I can get... for now...

That is good, just work on a bit more. Sooner or later you'll reach your 1050. Good luck

Hopefully I will reach level 2 soon enough... Gaining [kanji experience] is going to be a while...

I can start [Japanese core series 2000] 2 soon. I am also awaiting a new feature for this area...

Hi guys!

I see some of you have problems with kanji?
Ever tried the Heisig-Method? Get the book "Remembering the Kanji".
...and yes. I know it does not teach any readings and the keywords are very vague, but the idea behind the whole thing is to deal with the Kanji and to get used to them. It also teaches how to write them correctly.

Go to www.alljapaneseallthetime.com and get into the kanji section. Buy the Book or get an e-version, deal with the kanji (took me 6 months, but i could only make 15-20 a day due to work) and then come back on this site :3.

It worked for me...

Oh, another thing...

Some of you might think: "Hey, this will take me a hell lot of a time... I could use this time to study vocabulary and stuff!"

Believe me... You are faster dealing with 2042 Kanjis that way, then learning them yourself... And after you got through the book, you can at least guess what the meaning of a compound could be with the given keywords.

Oh, and use an SRS.
http://www.ichi2.net/anki/ here's the site of a popular one that I am using as well. Work wonders for the vocabulary that just won't get into your head and stay there longer than one freaking day.

It's of course "(,)than learning them yourself". Sorry for that mistake.

[Experience gain] rate has not changed much, but at least there is a better rate than before...

Does anyone have a proper explanation for [particle] "ga"?
What is the difference between yobimasu and yobimashou?

Does anyone know how to type a small "e" or "i"?

I don't know what IME you're using, but "xe" or "le" (or "xi"/"li") does it on mine.

"Xi" seems to work...for now...

Finally! Level up! Level 2 is here. In turn, I have more tests to finish...

yobimasu and yobimashou? whenever a verb + shou, it means that you're inviting someone to do something.

tabemasu = eat
tabemashou = let's eat

and so on

That explains much. Thank you, Kei_86.

Finally, this area's connection is running again! Now I can continue studies here! For anyone who ever reads this, tell me if you want to join in group studies...

Challenges!? That is what I am talking about. When I reach Level 3. I will start challenging navis! Can you read Chinese if you know Japanese? I am headed for 6000 [kanji]. I heard Chinese use 10000 characters, in general.

Anyone want to challenge me? Fairly easy...

Why don't you try to challenge someone?

Based on earlier challenges, I have to wait until I reach a higher level to challenge any navi without an imminent loss...

I cannot challenge anyone without knowing what to challenge them in. Unfortunately, kanji is the most popular, by far. I shall only receive challenges until I know at least 2000/6000, unless I can survive with a lower amount... More kanji experience means a higher chance of surviving a challenge...

Well, if you challenge me with kanji, you have a better-than-fair chance of winning... (~_~)

...Well, I will keep gaining experience until a later time...when I can properly use it...

keep on challenging people Darknaviexe!

To challenge other users is also challenging yourself

Oh!? What about my (growing) losing streak?...

I will have to win eventually. Is anyone else willing to challenge me?

You did all the challenges within 60 seconds ....
you have to be ready first then take the challenges. make a good foundation on each level

19400. Well, I am trying here, but I will need to keep challenging more and more navis to gain enough experience for...level 3! *echoes*

Really, am I one of the only few alive here? Why is no one challenging in return!?

Unless you are Quickman.exe , or are "inahurry", do not try http://www.smart.fm 's iKnow quick app. I spent 3-5 minutes gaining to item Exp. iKnow's regular version does better sometimes...

*no item EXP

I recently read Beeant's tips for Gaining Exp in JCJP. For anyone who dares read this (apparently, months have passed since that time...), I noticed many have been correcting me on sentences. In an attempt to gain 2000-5000 EXP each day, I hope it only helps for creating better sentences. Unfortunately, I still cannot do well with that. One question: ...Where do I find those Twitter examples?...

I just thought of something: 2000-5000 EXP a day? I do not recall gaining so much in a day before... That explains my pathetic slow speed compared to every other navi here...

Hi, Twitter examples are located in the Lesson - Vocabulary section, after clicking at that blue "twitter" button.

I´m not able to gain 2000-5000 EXP a day too. To gain it on everyday basisis is imposible for me. But you can determine you own desired speed (regular amount of exps for each visit). You are your own teacher :D

Think of JCJP: it is a game. Such a high scores I gained only in my "Practice" phase, during hunting combos. Sometimes I got stuck at learninig activity (especialy at 20+ items lessons, too much info at one time).

As for my motivation to study, I like jumping to new page at rank statistics...

I tried the link you posted to lang-8, and now I'm hooked. I been spending alot of time there the past few days.

Well, do not forget to enter this area as well. You can gain EXP in this area, which will help in combination.

I try to run all my tests here, at least once, every day.

Time to blast a recurrent boss out of the skies...permanently!!

On the off-chance any navi dares join me for Kanji group studies, say something. Oh, and you need Skype as well. If you do not have Skype, I know where to send you.

Slow day...after slow day after slow day!... Is it me or is anyone else who dares read this thread feeling the same way!?

One more thing: MSN added...

I really have to work on my kanji! Big Note Quiz is owning! Still trying though! One more thing: Anyone willing to join me for studies or battling, feel free to add on MSN or Skype! I will only give my info to those who are actually studying! Request only, unless you are a commander!

StonerPenguin: Seriously? I mentioned Smart.fm how many years ago, yet you are just now learning of it? ...Just so you know, I use both areas in combination. It helps...somehow...

Spanz: Wait, I just remembered you placed lower-level note tests! If I finish those, Big Note Test should be a breeze!...

I just noticed more bosses are starting to show up! Looks like I must continue increasing EXP just to enable an attack!... Surprise boss season is here...

Level 4, and I am Level 2? Not taking that! Time to mow them down!...permanently!